The title of this post comes from a book that I am reading. Now that book focuses on faith, but this post does not.
The words just work however. You do not have to be wrong for me to be right- that is how I roll.
One of the things that is really on my mind now is how, despite last night's "nicey nice" debate in Las Vegas, the Democrats are really splintered.
This must stop if we are going to win.
Now I don't expect everyone - or maybe anyone, to agree with some of the things I am going to say, but I hope that you will read this post and respond with what you think will help us galvanize ourselves collectively as progressive thinkers in this country.
I have been disheartened by how the so-called leading Democratic candidates have been handling themselves and one another. For the record, I was supporting Dennis Kucinich and have since switched to John Edwards.
Also for the record, my enthusiasm for any of the Democrats is tempered. I am not "in love" completely with anyone. I wish that I was, I can assure you.
However, the candidates are one thing and our society is another. We as bloggers are part of that society.
One of the goals of this blog is an important value for me personally and that is a place for the free and open exchange of thoughts and ideas. I do not ever think that I have all the answers. Hell, I don't know if I have any answers let alone all.
Yes, there are things I think I know, but I try to use my critical thinking skills every moment of every day to further discern, understand and live my life. It is an on-going process.
There has been one commenter who has been thrown off this blog and honestly, it is not his different viewpoint that caused that. It is his arrogance and presumption in how he expresses his opinion that causes me to delete his comments.
One more thought on critical thinking skills... I spent the bulk of my adult life at one big company, which I recently left. I spent a big chunk of time there as a manager and leader, with primary focus on people development for our division. If there was one thing that I saw lacking in many, nascent but crying out to be developed in others, was just this.
We are not taught to think very well in our society. We are taught to react. We are taught know all the answers and never ask questions. It is my experience that anything worth believing in is worth scrutinizing. It should be able to stand the heat or at least produce a new result for you. Enough about that.
It has caught my eye lately, that here among the blogs, there is some really negative talk and nasty words. Now your blogs are your blogs, but I have seen comments that startled me and I know I am not alone in that. And in more than one place and from more than one person.
For those of us who are of a similar mind can't find ways to work together, what are we going to do the day after the Democratic convention? When the die is cast, only one of them are going to be the candidate... Can we unite then after such vitriol now?
Believe in your people, believe in your ideals but I am hoping that the levels of acerbic talk are toned down. This does not mean to say that false niceness is called for. No. But to refer to the post, you can defend your own position and your candidate I hope, without taking down another from the same party.
In one comment thread on one blog I brought up the point that I thought that there was a certain level of viciousness towards a candidate that I do not even support. My comment was basically met with several that said something to the effect of this, "but that candidate started it first and deserves this."
Fine - that may be your opinion, so be it. However, I would caution one and all to pause and think about how those types of ideological positions are used against you. "If you were not gay, if you were not a baby killer, if you were not a pinko peace loving pussy" is the mentality of so many on the right.
It is too cheap and too easy in my estimation to blame the other side. No real mental work, no real exercise of thought or discernment or dare I say intellect. It is just anger. It is bullying in some cases. And I think it is terribly sad.
That is the mentality that brought forth this sick war we are in. They started it! They are bad! We are good!
It is really far too simplistic. So to revert to the title of the post - can we find ways to have conversation that furthers our cause? This is not at all meant to discourage healthy disagreement or debate! In fact some anger is needed.
But if it is gratuitous and just used to put down another, it is a sad day when our candidates do it and a sad day when we do too.
I can remember a post when I was made kind of an ass of myself. I got quite a few contentious comments on it! One of my regular readers and commenters wrote a strong comment to me. It took my breath away and I wrote that person a note saying thank you. I needed to hear that, I wanted to be right that day, at any cost. I'm glad that I got called on it. Even if I had disagreed however, how I would respect someone that called me on my shit and backed it up with their own critical thinking skills!
Maybe you think I am just full of shit. I am sorry if you do, but please feel free to say so if that is how you do feel. I just have found that in life, most things are not black or white, good or bad, right or wrong. Oh yes- many, many things are... However, the solutions to those things may not be as absolute as they seem. In general, it is a lot of good questions that bring forth and elucidate great answers.
The reality is that no matter who wins this election, we are all going to have to figure out how to live here and try to make life better for all. This is when I reflect on some of my real heroes- Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King and Jesus. Not one of them was about being right all the time, they were (are in Mandela's case. No matter what Bush said, Nelson is alive!) all rather dualistic thinkers who were not locked in some dogmatic or ideological box.
Idealistic? Yes I am. A dualistic thinker who really does believe and wants to work for a more collaborative planet. Call me crazy, but you don't have to be sane in order for me to be so!
I am hoping for some lively comments here... Am I the only one noticing this phenomenon of vitriol and anger? Maybe you are angry? Got something to say? I hope that you will say it!
38 comments:
I, like many other bloggers, get perturbed when threatened by opposite comments or feel attacked when in a minority opinion.
Another great reason to like America, we can disagree.
I really don't think I need to leave a comment to tell you I disagree with you a lot.
Greetings Wyld! I am intrigued by your use of the word threatened. I do understand feeling attacked and I do understand that you and I have very different views on how to respond when attacked.
Which is why you are who you are and you are where you are. And that is not an attack - just a statement.
Like you said however, we do have the freedom to disagree.
I hope that you never think that I do not value what we have here. Or your specific and general roles in the protection of such.
Whether or not you need to be where you are, doing what you do is of course at the intersection of agreement and disagreement for us.
If you don't know by know that I care for and respect you, my saying as much won't make a difference. I hope you do. And I will never, ever not be touched by what I read at More Cows blog...
Be cool man and get home soon.
Oh shit, blogger just ate my no_slappz pastiche, so for the sake of brevity...
I hate all you fuckers, everyone fuck off and fucking die, you fucks, your favorite band sucks, the candidate you support is an asshole, and you are a fucking fucker of fuckery 'cause thinking is overrated.
If I may be semi-serious for a moment, I think part of it is a general fatigue from, generally, the course of American society and, specifically, the last seven years. Most of us, I would assume, aren't happy with the way things are, both socially and structurally, the corporatization of everything, the emphasis on the unimportant aspects, etc, etc, etc.
To us - if I may lump a lot of different views into one blobby group - a lot of changes are so goddamn evident, we don't see what the fucking problem is. This is wrong: fix it. That is wrong: fix that, and so on. And since these fixes aren't happen and don't seem that they will, everyone has an edge about them. Not that I'm defending assholery, and I'm sure I participate in some of that myself, but being a lefty moonbat, I try to understand why things are the way they are.
I have no idea at all if I'm even in the same ballpark as clarity, but there ya go. ;-)
Nice post, Fran! There are several people I read regularly with whom I disagree, but their blogs are great and they make me think and/or laugh. You? I usually agree with you. I would say 99% of the time. However, you once left a hating-on-Necco-Wafers comment on my blog, and for that, I'm going to have to come up there and straighten you out. Because if you don't like Necco wafers, you're just helping the terrorists.
I think the current unpleasantness between Clinton and Obama was inevitable.
I was with you on Kucinich. In fact, I was actually loving him. Now I'm for Clinton. Edwards is my number two. Obama... I don't get it. He has virtually NO experience and every time I hear him speak he's yelling at me. I just don't like him.
At this point I think that most thinking people are just saying to themselves ANY Democrat. ANY Democrat. I predict a lot of unity after the convention.
I've got nothing to add... just wanted to comment and say that I appreciate your post.
Love and peace,
Lindy
Hello, Fran. I'm reminded of something we learn when we're kids...words hurt. There's so much angst out there. I think we're so intent to figure it out, to win, that we're not thinking about that old adage.
Great post. Good words.
I think your starting point is very powerful. In order for one person to be right (in those moments of grace when we ARE right) another person does not have to be wrong. And arguing over being right leads to so much damage to persons and communities. We need to articulate, express, and often defend our views with the clearest, best-reasoned thinking we can muster, and it is good to take one's stance with passion. But we get so defensive and anxious, then brash and obnoxious trying to prove we are right. Emotions take over as we revert to the reptilian brain patterns.
The universe does not stand or fall by my being right--nor does the Democratic Party or the Church I belong to or the USA. If we can all contribute as much of truth, insight, and compassion as we have without feeling we know it all and without ceding that anyone else knows it all, we might contribute, together, to something larger, more complete, more thoughtful, more just, more lifegiving. One can hope.
I too am really tired of the constant attacking on every side. Makes me want to shout STFU at the whole world. Surely we can all do better.
Thanks for your words.
The Borg Queen thought she was unstoppable, her coronation was inevitable. After all, her philandering husband had promised her the White House if she didn't divorce his ass after the Monica fracas.
Enter Barack Obama.
Did you see the look on her face last night when Obama was answering a question? It's a good thing she wasn't armed.
The Borg Queen's camp and their surrogates have been smearing Obama for months.
1. he's a drug addict
2. he's a drug dealer
3. he has ties to radical Islam
4. he is a closet Muslim
5. he will privatize Social Security
6. he's too inexperienced
7. he's anti-semitic
To his credit, Obama has taken the high road and not taken the bait.
Even when the Borg Queen injected race into the campaign with her MLK remark. It's really not important if you, or me, or any other white person "gets it," the black community got it and they're fuming. The Borg Queen knew precisely what she was doing.
The Clintons are masters at Rovian-style, sleazy politics. Frankly, the American public understand this too well and is partly why 50+% of voters -- both Dems and Repugs, say they won't vote for her under any circumstances.
If I didn't know better I'd swear Karl Rove is working on the Borg Queen's campaign team.
Randal- I have read no-slappz, I have commented against no-splappz, I have tangled with no-slappz and sir let me tell you... You are no no-slappz!!
Seriously though, I know folks get worked up, but there is a certain edge I am seeing. Hey I get worked up too. It is a fine line though. Who knows.
CDP I subscribe to a school of thought that says we must find ways to work through disagreements and that is not to hide them, but to broker through them. Hence, like you, I visit blogs where I do not agree with either part or most of what the author says. However, they may be informative, funny or something, so I go. I have no desire to live in a world of my own liking only.
That said, you have revealed that through my utter, deep and very dark disdain for the disgusting candy known as the Necco wafer I reveal my own true hatred of America and all it stands for. Come kick my ass sister, I am ready!
Lindy - I am always happy when you and/or Rowan stop by! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, your peace and your love. Right back at you dear woman and great dog!
Paul I often do shout STFU at the world! However, I do have a deep commitment to working through things. Perhaps it is my background, some of which I have revealed, some not, in which I grew up around well intentioned but insane people. Control issues through the roof, narcissistic matters, borderline personality disorder most likely. I was constantly told what to do and how to act and who to believe and what to say.
So as my healing made itself manifest over the years, this more collaborative approach emerged with it.
Hence this post. And I am pretty feckin' verbose, no matter what I try to do!
Christopher I support your right to free expression of opinion just like anyone else's but whoa man, that is so much hate. I just don't get it.
In fact, I thought momentarily about deleting your comment. It kind of feels a little like you spat upon my post. I don't think you did that intentionally, but that is how it feels from here.
However, no-slappz aside and some spam, I do not want to delete comments. I want to encourage the actual exchange of thoughts and ideas. I don't feel like the Borg Queen rant is exchange of anything, it is a projectile.
On a larger level-what happens if she does get the nomination? It concerns me too baby, but it could happen.
And if it is her vs. Huck, we got mad issues because if it is her all of Republican-dom will come to the polls to vote against her.
In the spirit of full disclosure I did just say to someone offline, who had read your comment, that I am mystified by your hate of her.
It outpaces the hate of old, straight, Republican conservatives of all stripes.
It is your right, but I wonder what the purpose of such anger within our own party is?
That old canard of she started it just doesn't feel like it holds any real water from where I sit, but that may be the case in your eyes.
And that is why, despite all that we have lost, it is still a somewhat free country.
Let free speech- such as it is, reign.
Peace out all.
I also like Kucinich the best. If people would vote for who they truly want, maybe the guy would get some votes.
I'm not going into the voting booth with the attitude of "not wasting my vote". I have in the past. Not anymore.
I'm going to vote for who I truly want.
It's the only way to bring about change. Let's stand up for what we truly want. The politicians don't have a clue.
Fran, I totally agree with the sentiments in your post. I noticed a distinct change in the discussions among some of our blogging group once actual votes started to be cast. Before that it felt like one big happy family. And it still does in most cases. But in the real world, it's getting ugly, and you are so right, we can't start arguing here as well. ANY DEMOCRAT is better than ANY REPUBLICAN in 2008. We have to keep remembering that. Hillary isn't my first choice, but I think she would be miles ahead of anyof the Republican candidates.
When I take those quizzes on policies that then match your views on issues up with the candidates, Chris Dodd and Kucinich come out at the top but they're followed closely by Obama/Hillary (pretty much the same) and Edwards; NONE of the Republicans are anywhere close to my views. John McCain leads them off as being the least opposite of my views, all the way down to Tancredo as the worst.
Since most everyone here shares similar views to my own, I can only feel that Hillary's views are not so far afield as everyone thinks. And we should be banding together not fighting over these things.
I don't like the idea of another Clinton administration because on principle I don't think we should have dynasties. But I'd take it any day over Huckabee or one of the others.
As the saying goes, we have to keep our eyes on the prize! And it's not just having a Democrat win - it's about saving this country. And that's what matters.
Fran, what a great post--you truly ARE a "uniter," something the politicians know little about. For instance, I'm TOTALLY united with you on hatred of the foul and perhaps poisonous Necco wafer. Can anything that tastes good really come in those freaky-colored powdery disks? I think not. So I will be there with you in the trenches when cdp comes to kick our asses!
On to the other points you made--I freely admit I'm angry most of the time when I see where this country is, but I do try not to insult anyone on the side of the truth or trying to change (read: any of the dems). I too thought Christopher's comment was a little acidic: "the Borg Queen?" Come on, man--she's someone's mom, you know?
I think we can all pen some pretty vituperative shite when we're fired up about something. But like you, I know we're going to need to unite behind whoever is nominated. Why burn bridges? Why put oneself through the grinder of hating Hillary or Obama or whoever, then have to support that person if s/he becomes the nominee? I mean--if we progressives can't unite--then how the hell can we expect to take back our government?
As a Californian, I used to be able to wait until June to vote in a primary. Now, I have to send off my absentee ballot within the next few weeks.
I'm probably voting Edwards. I know Kucinich is the "purest" candidate, but I'm way past the age where purity is the most important issue.
Fran's right about the level of anger in politics right now. There might have been some lefties who could get angry about Reagan and Bush I, but the level was clearly cranked up with Bill Clinton and the people on the radio who made a living hating his guts. Now the left hates GWB as much as the right hated Clinton. I don't say this as a "he started it!" accusation. This is how I remember it.
A big part of the problem is that TV and radio found a way to make money off the screamers. They've been around forever, but now they are the meat instead of the sauce.
Keeping one's calm in such an environment is a difficult task. You are doing a service, Fran, asking for calm.
I've really got almost nothing to add here that hasn't been said already.
Great post- very well put.
There are more than a few politicos whom I can honestly say I hate with every fiber of my being, but not the candidates.
Politics rile us up, we very much want to believe strongly in something/someone these days- maybe that's where a lot of the hate is brewing. We only get this chance every four years- it inspires very extreme emothions in people, I guess.
But really, what the hell do I know?
wow......
(i am at work and i have no time to type after reading all this)
Don't know if you've read my posts on the campaign, but I try to remain fairly objective in my analysis. Part of this is because I'll end up supporting whoever is the Democratic nominee, and while I have my preferences, I'm pragmatic (and cynical).
I just got the book, but haven't had time to start reading it yet. Glad there will be a discussion
DP Welcome - thanks for your sharing your thoughts! Which sound like wise ones!
Maugirl - thanks for weighing in. Yes, I would have to agree that staying focused on getting a Democrat into the WH is essential and hopefully we can do that with some civility. Let's not make it any easier for the Repubs.
Delia- You are so generous with your praise, which I am not so sure that I deserve. But thank you anyway! You know how very deeply important that reaching across boundaries is for me, due to our many off-the-blog emails.
We've all said "what a stupid fuckwad" about someone, but my hope is that hot rhetoric is toned down so that real content and meaning can come through.
Matty Boy did you hit the nail on the head- radio and TV made it possible for loud screaming to become an award winning sport. With that and all the pushed primaries, I think things are in an uproar. And not in a good way.
Thanks for your thoughts and your wisdom, which I for one, always appreciate and most especially today.
WhiskeyMarie you know a lot actually! And you are so right, with something that only happens every four years, and with the past years behind us... well people get fired up.
Dcap yes -wow is right. This is why I was largely good at my job but that certain folks like DPS caused me to loose my own cool! It was also why certain people like DPS and beyond got pissed off.
Py Py... dear Py, pragmatic... yes. Cynical - maybe. Wise- always. Thank you.
Jan - I just used the book title, the conversation has taken
Thank you everyone for such lively comments on this and welcome to anyone who happens here over the next few hours or days.
FIA -
Thanks for sending me the link to this post (I would have gotten here sooner or later...) - when I was working at Oracle, Larry Ellison once said that "it is not enough to win, everyone else must lose."
I'm afraid we've entered another winner-take-all phase in the country, or the ends-justifies-the-means.
I'm usually a take-no-prisoners guy myself, but I will never tell anyone that their opinion is wrong. I hope that I fall into your vision of what a good citizen is/does.
Regards,
Tengrain
Fran,
If "Borg Queen" assaulted your delicate sensibilities, then you'd better stay away from blogs written by black folks because the nickname is one of the most popular for Hillary.
It's also very interesting that your eyes immediately went to my use of "Borg Queen" and the dozen examples of how Hillary smeared Obama conveniently sailed right over your head.
I am reminded of how the issue of race in the USA is divided into two groups: those under 40 years of age and those over 40 years of age.
I'm glad to be in the first group.
Fran, I'm with you. I was for Kucinich, and now I'm for Edwards. I think one reason Democrats are so angry at each other is that we're deathly afraid of having another Republican in the White House. We're afraid that if the Democratic candidate we like least gets the nomination, we may lose the election. It's sort of a panic reaction, maybe?
When discussions get that hot, I tend to bow out - not always, but most of the time. They get us nowhere.
I am reminded of how the issue of race in the USA is divided into two groups: those under 40 years of age and those over 40 years of age.
Christopher, I'm in the over 40 group, in the waaaay over 40 group, and that means....
Tengrain what my opinion of a good citizen is or not does not matter. That we don't eat each other alive as liberals and democrats does matter. That's all I am saying.
I don't care to tell folks their opinion is wrong, as opinions are just that and really can't be right or wrong.
Ed Rollins and Mike Huckabee laughing their Republican asses off as Hillary and Obama and their respective followers duke it out. That is fucking wrong in my eyes. That's my opinion.
Christopher you've really missed the point and I think you want to be angry, that is how it seems. Trust me, I'm angry too, my country has been hijacked and I want it back, Constitution and all.
Am I to interpret that you are saying that I am in some over 40 crowd that is missing something?
hi Fran--
your post is so right on--
in todays fractionalized world so many people seem terrified of allowing any disagreement with their own views -- as if THEY will be damned to hell if someone else is proved correct -- even if the other person's views are not mutually exclusive with their own.
it is so sad to me when I hear people say, 'I will NEVER vote for this person!
I want to ask them --then who WILL you vote for--if that person is the nominee? will you vote for the Republican opposition? will you stay home?
the fact is -- our founding fathers didn't agree 100% with each other. there was much disagreement during the 1st Continental Congress. but, when push came to shove they found a way to work together because not to do so meant defeat. and when Ben Franklin said, 'We must all hang together or we shall, most assuredly, all hang separately,' he meant it quite literally. at that time, the people who were creating our country were outlaws.
today we find ourselves in much the same predicament and it would behoove us to attempt to find common ground ----- or resign ourselves to President Huckabee or President Giuliani. Is that what we want?
so, great post, Fran. you are reaching toward whatever sanity remains in the world today. may others follow your lead.
Fran, this post is an example of why you have quickly become one of my very favorite bloggers! You've asked us to use our intellect and our manners. Not to censor ourselves, but also not to resort to name-calling and hate to make our points. I think some may not want to hear that part of what you are saying, but thank you so much for speaking truth as you see it and for having the courage of your convictions!
and, though I know it's not really my place to say so on Fran's blog, I feel a certain need to speak to Christopher:
on another blog I saw you playing the racist card against someone who certainly didn't deserve that sort of treatment.
then, here, I see you playing the age card.
and I see you doing exactly what Fran is urging us not to do: assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is a fool or a criminal or both.
the fact is -- we DO live in a society that allows its citizens to disagree with with each other and with their government.
yet, when someone does not absolutely agree with your views they are met with vitriol.
reasoned words are more likely to be met with reason. hatred brings forth hatred -- or at the very least, anger.
as angry as you seem to be, I seriously doubt you will actually think about what Fran is saying or what I am saying here. still, I had to try.
FranIam- Great post. I really like how you hit on the "they" vs "we" thing we've got going on here. I have never picked a team and stayed loyal to it, and I find that I tend to get some harsh reactions from people on both sides of the aisle. One day I'll be accused of being a Bush hater and the next day I'll be accused of being just another Republican. Why has our society made it so necessary to be on one side or the other when we all share this one country?
I'm hope that we are phasing out of the need to frame everything in terms of D vs R, left vs right, liberal vs conservative. The terms and teams have lost their meaning. Maybe when we phase out the 'us' vs 'them' labels, the hate speech will gradually phase out too.
Gotta hope anyway.
also
do not kid yourself -- the media LOVES this us and them, fight to the death thing -- makes for great television....and little work on the part of 'pundits' (who are really just observers) -----
we are playing right into the media hands....and giving them enough entertainment to fill the spaces between the commercials
signed
cynic
BLOGGER! I just spent a lot of time writing responses to Grandmere, Two Crows, Jen and DCap... Blogger ate them. GRRR. Blogger- fight the real enemy!
Seriously- I will simply thank everyone for their thoughtful comments and important viewpoints.
All or nothing propositions make me ill at ease, because in my experience, one party ends up with nothing and there is where the bitterness and the hate begin.
If nothing else, Democracy is supposed to be about how we can come together. If we as Dems can't show this, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Fran, I agree with you about the edge, I see it too, I'm just looking for explanations. We're all in the same boat here, we all want these neocon fascist fucks not just out of office, but to become loathed so they can't rise up from the slime and fuck the world up any more than they have.
Fran, my dear friend, words fail me. How can I ever thank you enough for writing this post and initiating this important conversation?
These same thoughts have been roiling around in my over-medicated brain for more than a week now, and it's been frustrating as hell not to be able to get them onto the page.
And here they are, simply and eloquently stated, and perhaps most significantly, from a Progressive Woman of Faith. This last point is hugely important to me and to the very Future of America: If we allow Theocrats like Mr. Huckabee to apply their beloved Paradigm of Opposites to the process of Constitutional Amendments, the American People will be faced with a very black-or-white choice - either we choose God and All That Is Good, or we choose the Godless Heathenism of The Terrorists. And with the choices so delineated, I have absolute faith in the Good People of America to replace our Constitution, bit by bit, with selected excerpts from the Fundamentalist Bible.
You, Dear Woman, represent a glimmer of hope in the struggle for the survival of this delicate experiment we call American Democracy. You are the ember we must fan into flame, the flame we must grow into the furnace which will forge the bridge between True Progressives and True Christians, the Bridge which will take us all, together, into a world of reason and compassion and Justice for All.
I need to get off these damned meds so I can THINK, dammit! I want to be here to fight along side you. This is way too important to sit out on the sidelines.
Sorry to be so late to this party, Gurrrl - things are just happening in slo-mo right now.
But that's gonna change, starting TODAY.
Peace.
Oh, and Christopher, my Fine Fierce Friend, your anger is truly justified. But anger can either become action and empower you to make great changes for the good of us all, or it can become hatred, and destroy you from the inside out.
We need you, Brother, to wield the Big Sword for us feeble old farts! Please consider this to be a heart-felt invitation.
There's a real danger in too much infighting and acrimony. To see proof of that, just look at the Republicans and how divided they are, and how the mutual hostility between their various factions is escalating. I don't want to see that happen with our side.
Unfortunately the internet promotes misunderstanding and conflict. It's an impersonal form of communication. People use very informal language which, in writing, is easily mistaken for being more aggressive and rude than the writer intended.
The important thing is to always keep in mind what's at stake.
We're one Supreme Court appointment away from having Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Another four years of erosion of the separation of church and state will entrench the loss of crucial freedoms.
Another four years of no federal funding for stem-cell research will further delay progress in critical fields of medicine, leading to death and suffering on a much larger scale than is at stake in Iraq, even if it's in a less dramatic and visible form.
Another four years of inaction on global warming will let the problem grow worse and more difficult and expensive to deal with.
We can't afford another Republican administration. No matter who the Democrat is.
I support Clinton, but if it's Obama or Edwards, I'm not going to take my ball(ot) and go home in a snit. We can't afford the kind of internecine conflict that would make anyone else do so.
Leave the circular firing squads to the Republicans.
Randal True indeed!
Cunning Runt Hope you are feeling better! I will call you later my friend. Thanks for your kind words. Don't elevate me, we must all lock arms here and work together. It is essential to what is left of our democracy.
Infidel Thanks for coming by this blog! You have spoken wisely and with clarity. Thank you.
Christopher, I reiterate what Cunning Runt said about laying down the hate. Think how much the media is pumping up every little word and slip and innuendo. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated into hating dems--we're on the same side!
And as for your comment about under/over 40, I'm over 40 and while I often wish my body were younger, the experience I've gained in 43 years makes me happy to have been around long enough to know what I know. And one thing I know is that there are PLENTY of under-40 bigots out there, believe me.
Here I am, late as usual. I have been guilty of saying that I won't vote for Hillary Clinton, but that is speaking in the moment, when she has done something that pisses me off. Obama has done a few things that pissed me off too. And frankly, there are few Dems in national politics that I'm not pissed off at right now. But resorting to name calling is worthless on all counts, in my opinion.
I want to unite behind one candidate, but frankly I am still smarting over 2004, when I committed to Kerry, when he promised to count all the votes AND THEN DIDN'T. And as I said in the comments on my own blog, one thing that can be said for Clinton is that I suspect that she will demand that all the votes be counted. That is a good thing.
Re: name calling, from time to time I actually refer to the "president" using various derogatory terms ... and even then I feel as if I am taking the low road.
Great post, Fran, as usual. When can we have coffee?
dguzman- my sister in peace
Suzy- thank you so much for coming by. If I could instantly transport myself to Wisconsin, we would be having coffee very soon. One day, my friend- one day.
Thank you for your wise, intelligent and always thoughtful words and viewpoint.
You are so right- Hillary will not leave one vote uncounted!
Let us stay focused so that we may create the world of peace we long for.
Fran, you know I agree, because a few days back I posted essentially the same thing. I'm an Edwards supporter and not very happy with either Clinton or Obama. Where I find flaws in their policy, I shall continue to criticize that policy. Where I find their actions unethical, I shall continue to criticize their actions. I've done my fair share on both. Nevertheless, I shall support whoever wins the Democratic nomination. Our worst stands head and shoulders above the best the GOP has to offer. Also, like you and TC I find Christopher's personal attacks offensive.
Many of us feel misunderstood and threatened that we feel we must resort to name-calling, hair-splitting, and arguing over semantics.
As you point out, Fran, that does nothing but divide our ranks further. Though we are open-minded, that does not excuse us from losing our tempers or responding to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism so negatively.
Most people can barely stand constructive praise, much less constructive criticism, but there is a big difference between ripping someone a new one and disagreeing with them respectfully.
Excellent post as many others have said. I've been feeling really blue lately with all the name calling and such going on. I don't want to be a part of that at all. I've even thought of just closing the blog and not reading any of you anymore because the level of hate--and unreasoned arguments too I must admit--depresses the hell out of me. If we start acting like republicans then where am I to go? Green party? Independent? I've always been a democrat and one of the best things about democrats is that they are open to reasoned discourse so when that is gone then so is one of the best things about the party and it's time to pack it in. Just my 2cents.
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